India is posting among the most strong financial progress charges proper now on this planet. And with China slowing, India may develop into the brand new engine of worldwide financial progress.
However it can take strategic investments, elevated labor participation and extra for India to realize its financial ambitions. Bloomberg’s New Delhi-based economics and politics reporter Dan Strumpf joins host Sarah Holder to debate India’s roadmap, and what its success may imply for the remainder of the world.
Here’s a frivolously edited transcript of the dialog:
Sarah Holder: On the fringe of New Delhi, within the metropolis of Noida, the groundwork for India’s financial future is being constructed.
Huge blocks of electronics factories have sprung up there – from a million-square-foot Dixon Applied sciences plant staffed by about 26,000 staff; to a Samsung facility that’s churning out 120 million telephones a yr.
Holder: This new manufacturing hub is on the coronary heart of a push led by India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi to show the nation into a producing powerhouse, and an engine of worldwide financial progress. Right here is Modi speaking to Congress in Washington final summer season:
Narendra Modi: At the moment India is the fifth largest economic system (CHEERING MODI MODI). And, India would be the third largest economic system quickly. We’re not solely rising greater however we’re additionally rising sooner.
Holder: And already, there are some indicators that the plan is working: international funding is pouring in, the nation’s inventory market is booming, and producers are ramping up manufacturing.
Dan Strumpf: India is posting among the most strong financial progress charges proper now on this planet. It’s miles and away the world’s quickest rising, Main economic system on the world stage.
Holder: That’s Dan Strumpf, who covers economics and politics from New Delhi for Bloomberg. And he says there’s one other massive cause analysts and economists are being attentive to India proper now:
Strumpf: Why is all people so all in favour of India? Properly, I imply, In fact, one of many largest causes is solely that it is not China.
Holder: That’s as a result of whereas India’s economic system is dashing up, China’s has been slowing down and with China’s strained world commerce relations, it seems like India has a singular alternative to overhaul it because the world’s largest contributor to progress.
However to realize Prime Minister Modi’s most formidable objectives, India nonetheless has a variety of work to do: from modernizing its infrastructure to rising its workforce, to constructing out its city facilities.
Santanu Sengupta: India wants much more cities.
Holder: That is Goldman Sachs’s India economist Santanu Sengupta, talking to the Bloomberg Originals staff.
Sengupta: There may be a variety of progress already taking place. However there are essential issues like water, like visitors, like city housing that must be solved.
Holder: At the moment on the present – May a thriving India observe in China’s financial footsteps? And what’s going to it take to rival its progress? From Bloomberg Information, that is The Huge Take. I’m Sarah Holder.
Holder: So, for years, China’s economic system grew on the quickest tempo on this planet. However now it is slowed down significantly. I requested Dan Strumpf: What’s it concerning the Indian economic system at the moment that has folks saying it may see progress on the fee China as soon as did?
Strumpf: On paper, there’s really a variety of similarities. Uh, India is now the world’s largest nation by inhabitants, simply surpassed China, 1.4 billion folks. It has financial progress, which could be very scarce world wide proper now. And there is quite a few different elements working in India’s favor. It has what economists check with as a type of a, as a demographic dividend, which is that it has this type of younger rising inhabitants that’s hungry for work and may be put to work, may be put to productive work.
China, after all, has an growing older inhabitants and a shrinking inhabitants as do many developed economies world wide. So all of those sort of elements are, coming collectively to, to work in India’s favor.
Holder: Prime Minister Modi has pledged to capitalize on this potential. As he seeks a 3rd time period in workplace, he’s promised to take India to “the highest place on this planet.” And an enormous a part of the plan is to increase India’s manufacturing capability to carry it as much as 1 / 4 of the nation’s GDP.
However there’s rather a lot that has to occur first. Beginning with – constructing higher infrastructure.
Strumpf: That is actually an enormous and longstanding challenge in India.
India nonetheless lags on quite a few metrics, say, in comparison with China, for those who go to say, the type of manufacturing corridors of southern China, for instance, I imply, you may simply see world class infrastructure, world class highways. China is, after all, recognized for its extraordinarily effectively developed excessive velocity rail community that took a few years to construct.
And India has lengthy struggled with issues like, uh, roads, you realize, the standard of its railroads. It has inadequate airports, inadequate ports; And these are the type of issues that you could appeal to issues like international producers. So, infrastructure has been a serious precedence for the Modi administration.
Holder: Modi’s administration has promised to commit 143 trillion rupees – the equal of effectively over a trillion {dollars} – to infrastructure within the subsequent few years. A few of that cash will go in direction of new airports. India final yr had about 148 airports however they plan to spice up the quantity to 220 subsequent yr. They’re additionally engaged on their railways and roads.
Strumpf: One of the touted tasks, in the case of excessive velocity rail is a forthcoming railway that’s meant to attach Gujarat, which, Modi’s house state with Mumbai, which is the monetary capital. And this has but to come back on-line. However it’s type of this a lot touted challenge. And, you realize, the ambition is that it is considered one of quite a few new tasks that may sort of sew collectively all of those up and coming Indian, industrial and monetary facilities.
One other challenge is a serious freeway that is meant to be connecting Mumbai with New Delhi, the capital and that is really up and operating. Issues like that assist scale back logistics prices and assist scale back the overhead that companies and buyers are paying to do enterprise right here. And, that is actually type of the profit that, it is hoped, will get reaped from, from funding tasks like that.
Holder: To see the sort of progress it desires, India can even should drive up its labor drive participation – which is presently among the many lowest on this planet. Solely just a little over half the nation’s working-age inhabitants was working or in search of a job as of 2022. Charges are even decrease for ladies.
Strumpf: This can be a large drawback as a result of, you want extra folks to be within the workforce for those who, if you wish to generate progress nevertheless it’s additionally an enormous social drawback. India suffers from excessive unemployment, so proper now, a really massive share of its economic system is agricultural. And plenty of economists level to the truth that, India’s workforce is undereducated, there are jobs within the service sector, there are jobs in excessive tech industries in locations like Bangalore, Hyderabad after which there’s jobs for folks within the agricultural sector, which is low expert labor there’s, there’s actually a necessity to extend the share of staff sort of in that, in that center space, proper? Who can do issues like, work in factories in massive numbers or handle factories.
Holder: It looks as if one of many broader objectives for rising India’s economic system is to develop the nation’s center class the identical method China has been capable of. How may that reshape the Indian economic system?
Strumpf: So, yeah, I imply, that is completely the case — the event of India’s center class is actually linked inextricably with constructing out the manufacturing business. And the explanation for that, that many economists level to, is that manufacturing is without doubt one of the few sectors in an economic system that actually is, is ready to generate massive numbers of jobs and huge numbers of jobs for individuals who have just a little little bit of training, however may not be working in expertise firms and these are the those who Modi and that India sort of have to put to work, in an effort to develop and increase the financial progress fee to a stage that sort of places it on monitor to overhaul China.
Holder: In the event that they do handle to get extra folks into the labor drive, and amp up their manufacturing sector, they will have to construct out their cities. Simply 36 p.c of India’s inhabitants dwell in cities versus over 64 p.c of China’s. I requested Dan how India is considering urbanizing.
Strumpf: I feel this goes really proper to the infrastructure level, it is not nearly serving enterprise. It is about serving cities and it is about constructing, not similar to highways and excessive velocity rail, however metro strains and improved inside metropolis freeway hyperlinks and issues like this that which can be going to draw housing improvement, for instance, which can be going to draw folks, uh, I imply, out in, you realize, Noida, simply by means of instance you realize, we noticed an enormous new plot of land the place you have acquired only a what’s meant to be one million sq. foot smartphone manufacturing unit that is that is simply damaged floor, proper? Now, simply, you realize, a couple of kilometer away or so within the distance. You’ve got acquired about half a dozen excessive rises which have simply come up which can be just below building that should, um, you realize, home a variety of these folks to work on this plant. So, you realize, one type of begets the opposite.
Holder: However India’s nonetheless acquired a variety of catching as much as do. Its $3.5 trillion economic system at the moment is just a couple of fifth of the dimensions of China’s.
Once we come again: What India’s financial ambitions imply for China and for the remainder of the world.
Holder: We’ve been talking with Bloomberg reporter Dan Strumpf in New Delhi about India’s potential to take the mantle from China as the worldwide chief in financial progress.
Holder: How a lot does India’s success depend on consuming China’s lunch? Does India have to truly take jobs, factories, alternatives away from China?
Strumpf: So there’s two methods of taking a look at that. You may make the case that India would not want China to decelerate to advance. it is financial progress shouldn’t be zero sum, and China and India even have very strong financial ties. And so a slowing in China is not on all fronts, essentially good for India. I feel what actually what Modi acknowledges and what many international buyers are sort of keying in on is that there’s this rising want world wide to sort of de-risk away from China. we hear a variety of discuss of this, what’s referred to as this China-plus one technique the place for those who’re an enormous producer or, multinational like Apple or Samsung or one thing that is had an enormous footprint in China for a very long time, you do not essentially wish to try this pull out of China since you’ve acquired, say within the case of Apple, I feel actually deep roots there and a large provide chain that, that may’t actually be replicated in a single day anyplace else. Um, however you realize, you are aware of each the slowdown taking place in China and of the shifting geopolitical winds.
And also you need an alternate that may take just a little little bit of the warmth. Off of that relationship. And that’s the place India is available in for a lot of of those firms. And plenty of firms are looking for a method as effectively to capitalize on this chance.
Holder: And is it working to this point? Is there much more international funding flooding into India because it’s, you realize, uh, raised the bar on, on these financial expectations?
Strumpf: So I feel the reply that you’d hear is that it is working. it is not a clear one for one greenback for greenback, all people’s pulling out of China they usually’re coming into India. It is a variety of that funding that say might need been going into into China. If, you realize, the world have been in a special place proper now, it is getting unfold out world wide.
A few of it may India, however a variety of it may Southeast Asia. Vietnam, for instance, is definitely taking a variety of funding in manufacturing from firms which may’ve been investing in China. In fact, Mexico has additionally been a serious recipient of a variety of this funding as effectively.
India is getting a few of it however, in some ways, what you hear is that India stays a tough place to do enterprise. There’s a variety of obstacles to entry. There are sophisticated tax regimes to take care of and the sort-of wheels of presidency in India, you realize, they simply grind extra slowly, actually than they do in China, the place, for higher or for worse, one occasion rule has managed to streamline the economic system in a really speedy and swift method.
Holder: What is going to it imply for the US if India is ready to ship on these formidable financial progress plans?
Strumpf: So what the US sees in India, I feel, is, um, in the very best case situation as a associate, as a rustic you possibly can work with and as a rustic you possibly can take care of and, you realize, as a fellow democracy, um, as a rustic with some shared values.
Um, so a extra economically vibrant India is a counterweight to China, which is more and more, the US’s largest world rival. So from a strategic perspective, India undoubtedly represents a associate with the US and it may well additionally characterize, you realize, a spot the place a variety of US firms can spend money on and also you’re seeing a variety of that funding already coming in.
Holder: We’ve been speaking rather a lot about India’s potential, however I needed to ask Dan, doesn’t this type of speedy financial growth have downsides, too?
Strumpf: You already know, simply to take the China case, I feel it is, it is very effectively documented that the largest downsides to its financial growth have been the, uh, environmental, uh, unintended effects that got here with it. I imply, you realize, um, and, uh, I imply, the tales of air pollution in locations like Beijing and Shanghai.
Um, I imply, you are really seeing that replicated in lots of Indian cities now in locations like New Delhi, the place, um, you realize, the air pollution is actually the worst on this planet. In order that’s, I imply, that is the obvious draw back to progress. And particularly to speedy progress of that scale.
Holder: So Dan, you have actually helped us perceive the dimensions of India’s ambitions, the place they’re at proper now, the place they go from right here. You’ve got additionally talked to a variety of analysts and economists who’re following what’s taking place in India actually intently. How reasonable do they assume these progress plans are?
Strumpf: So our colleagues at Bloomberg Economics, they crunched the numbers and they’re, um, their conclusion is that India really can overtake China because the world’s engine of financial progress, that means it can, it may be the world’s largest contributor to world progress inside this decade. That is type of in the very best case situation now in a type of a slower progress situation, you’ll see that occuring within the subsequent decade.
So I feel that there’s a sturdy perception that India can develop into, can take this type of mantle because the world’s incremental driver of worldwide progress as China slows down. And you realize what meaning for India is that it’s going to proceed to attract extra international funding.
It should proceed to draw extra funding from international firms and it’ll proceed to sort of develop. As a participant on the world stage.
Holder: Properly, Dan, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us at the moment and sharing your nice reporting.
Strumpf: Properly, thanks a lot.
However it can take strategic investments, elevated labor participation and extra for India to realize its financial ambitions. Bloomberg’s New Delhi-based economics and politics reporter Dan Strumpf joins host Sarah Holder to debate India’s roadmap, and what its success may imply for the remainder of the world.
Here’s a frivolously edited transcript of the dialog:
Sarah Holder: On the fringe of New Delhi, within the metropolis of Noida, the groundwork for India’s financial future is being constructed.
Huge blocks of electronics factories have sprung up there – from a million-square-foot Dixon Applied sciences plant staffed by about 26,000 staff; to a Samsung facility that’s churning out 120 million telephones a yr.
Holder: This new manufacturing hub is on the coronary heart of a push led by India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi to show the nation into a producing powerhouse, and an engine of worldwide financial progress. Right here is Modi speaking to Congress in Washington final summer season:
Narendra Modi: At the moment India is the fifth largest economic system (CHEERING MODI MODI). And, India would be the third largest economic system quickly. We’re not solely rising greater however we’re additionally rising sooner.
Holder: And already, there are some indicators that the plan is working: international funding is pouring in, the nation’s inventory market is booming, and producers are ramping up manufacturing.
Dan Strumpf: India is posting among the most strong financial progress charges proper now on this planet. It’s miles and away the world’s quickest rising, Main economic system on the world stage.
Holder: That’s Dan Strumpf, who covers economics and politics from New Delhi for Bloomberg. And he says there’s one other massive cause analysts and economists are being attentive to India proper now:
Strumpf: Why is all people so all in favour of India? Properly, I imply, In fact, one of many largest causes is solely that it is not China.
Holder: That’s as a result of whereas India’s economic system is dashing up, China’s has been slowing down and with China’s strained world commerce relations, it seems like India has a singular alternative to overhaul it because the world’s largest contributor to progress.
However to realize Prime Minister Modi’s most formidable objectives, India nonetheless has a variety of work to do: from modernizing its infrastructure to rising its workforce, to constructing out its city facilities.
Santanu Sengupta: India wants much more cities.
Holder: That is Goldman Sachs’s India economist Santanu Sengupta, talking to the Bloomberg Originals staff.
Sengupta: There may be a variety of progress already taking place. However there are essential issues like water, like visitors, like city housing that must be solved.
Holder: At the moment on the present – May a thriving India observe in China’s financial footsteps? And what’s going to it take to rival its progress? From Bloomberg Information, that is The Huge Take. I’m Sarah Holder.
Holder: So, for years, China’s economic system grew on the quickest tempo on this planet. However now it is slowed down significantly. I requested Dan Strumpf: What’s it concerning the Indian economic system at the moment that has folks saying it may see progress on the fee China as soon as did?
Strumpf: On paper, there’s really a variety of similarities. Uh, India is now the world’s largest nation by inhabitants, simply surpassed China, 1.4 billion folks. It has financial progress, which could be very scarce world wide proper now. And there is quite a few different elements working in India’s favor. It has what economists check with as a type of a, as a demographic dividend, which is that it has this type of younger rising inhabitants that’s hungry for work and may be put to work, may be put to productive work.
China, after all, has an growing older inhabitants and a shrinking inhabitants as do many developed economies world wide. So all of those sort of elements are, coming collectively to, to work in India’s favor.
Holder: Prime Minister Modi has pledged to capitalize on this potential. As he seeks a 3rd time period in workplace, he’s promised to take India to “the highest place on this planet.” And an enormous a part of the plan is to increase India’s manufacturing capability to carry it as much as 1 / 4 of the nation’s GDP.
However there’s rather a lot that has to occur first. Beginning with – constructing higher infrastructure.
Strumpf: That is actually an enormous and longstanding challenge in India.
India nonetheless lags on quite a few metrics, say, in comparison with China, for those who go to say, the type of manufacturing corridors of southern China, for instance, I imply, you may simply see world class infrastructure, world class highways. China is, after all, recognized for its extraordinarily effectively developed excessive velocity rail community that took a few years to construct.
And India has lengthy struggled with issues like, uh, roads, you realize, the standard of its railroads. It has inadequate airports, inadequate ports; And these are the type of issues that you could appeal to issues like international producers. So, infrastructure has been a serious precedence for the Modi administration.
Holder: Modi’s administration has promised to commit 143 trillion rupees – the equal of effectively over a trillion {dollars} – to infrastructure within the subsequent few years. A few of that cash will go in direction of new airports. India final yr had about 148 airports however they plan to spice up the quantity to 220 subsequent yr. They’re additionally engaged on their railways and roads.
Strumpf: One of the touted tasks, in the case of excessive velocity rail is a forthcoming railway that’s meant to attach Gujarat, which, Modi’s house state with Mumbai, which is the monetary capital. And this has but to come back on-line. However it’s type of this a lot touted challenge. And, you realize, the ambition is that it is considered one of quite a few new tasks that may sort of sew collectively all of those up and coming Indian, industrial and monetary facilities.
One other challenge is a serious freeway that is meant to be connecting Mumbai with New Delhi, the capital and that is really up and operating. Issues like that assist scale back logistics prices and assist scale back the overhead that companies and buyers are paying to do enterprise right here. And, that is actually type of the profit that, it is hoped, will get reaped from, from funding tasks like that.
Holder: To see the sort of progress it desires, India can even should drive up its labor drive participation – which is presently among the many lowest on this planet. Solely just a little over half the nation’s working-age inhabitants was working or in search of a job as of 2022. Charges are even decrease for ladies.
Strumpf: This can be a large drawback as a result of, you want extra folks to be within the workforce for those who, if you wish to generate progress nevertheless it’s additionally an enormous social drawback. India suffers from excessive unemployment, so proper now, a really massive share of its economic system is agricultural. And plenty of economists level to the truth that, India’s workforce is undereducated, there are jobs within the service sector, there are jobs in excessive tech industries in locations like Bangalore, Hyderabad after which there’s jobs for folks within the agricultural sector, which is low expert labor there’s, there’s actually a necessity to extend the share of staff sort of in that, in that center space, proper? Who can do issues like, work in factories in massive numbers or handle factories.
Holder: It looks as if one of many broader objectives for rising India’s economic system is to develop the nation’s center class the identical method China has been capable of. How may that reshape the Indian economic system?
Strumpf: So, yeah, I imply, that is completely the case — the event of India’s center class is actually linked inextricably with constructing out the manufacturing business. And the explanation for that, that many economists level to, is that manufacturing is without doubt one of the few sectors in an economic system that actually is, is ready to generate massive numbers of jobs and huge numbers of jobs for individuals who have just a little little bit of training, however may not be working in expertise firms and these are the those who Modi and that India sort of have to put to work, in an effort to develop and increase the financial progress fee to a stage that sort of places it on monitor to overhaul China.
Holder: In the event that they do handle to get extra folks into the labor drive, and amp up their manufacturing sector, they will have to construct out their cities. Simply 36 p.c of India’s inhabitants dwell in cities versus over 64 p.c of China’s. I requested Dan how India is considering urbanizing.
Strumpf: I feel this goes really proper to the infrastructure level, it is not nearly serving enterprise. It is about serving cities and it is about constructing, not similar to highways and excessive velocity rail, however metro strains and improved inside metropolis freeway hyperlinks and issues like this that which can be going to draw housing improvement, for instance, which can be going to draw folks, uh, I imply, out in, you realize, Noida, simply by means of instance you realize, we noticed an enormous new plot of land the place you have acquired only a what’s meant to be one million sq. foot smartphone manufacturing unit that is that is simply damaged floor, proper? Now, simply, you realize, a couple of kilometer away or so within the distance. You’ve got acquired about half a dozen excessive rises which have simply come up which can be just below building that should, um, you realize, home a variety of these folks to work on this plant. So, you realize, one type of begets the opposite.
Holder: However India’s nonetheless acquired a variety of catching as much as do. Its $3.5 trillion economic system at the moment is just a couple of fifth of the dimensions of China’s.
Once we come again: What India’s financial ambitions imply for China and for the remainder of the world.
Holder: We’ve been talking with Bloomberg reporter Dan Strumpf in New Delhi about India’s potential to take the mantle from China as the worldwide chief in financial progress.
Holder: How a lot does India’s success depend on consuming China’s lunch? Does India have to truly take jobs, factories, alternatives away from China?
Strumpf: So there’s two methods of taking a look at that. You may make the case that India would not want China to decelerate to advance. it is financial progress shouldn’t be zero sum, and China and India even have very strong financial ties. And so a slowing in China is not on all fronts, essentially good for India. I feel what actually what Modi acknowledges and what many international buyers are sort of keying in on is that there’s this rising want world wide to sort of de-risk away from China. we hear a variety of discuss of this, what’s referred to as this China-plus one technique the place for those who’re an enormous producer or, multinational like Apple or Samsung or one thing that is had an enormous footprint in China for a very long time, you do not essentially wish to try this pull out of China since you’ve acquired, say within the case of Apple, I feel actually deep roots there and a large provide chain that, that may’t actually be replicated in a single day anyplace else. Um, however you realize, you are aware of each the slowdown taking place in China and of the shifting geopolitical winds.
And also you need an alternate that may take just a little little bit of the warmth. Off of that relationship. And that’s the place India is available in for a lot of of those firms. And plenty of firms are looking for a method as effectively to capitalize on this chance.
Holder: And is it working to this point? Is there much more international funding flooding into India because it’s, you realize, uh, raised the bar on, on these financial expectations?
Strumpf: So I feel the reply that you’d hear is that it is working. it is not a clear one for one greenback for greenback, all people’s pulling out of China they usually’re coming into India. It is a variety of that funding that say might need been going into into China. If, you realize, the world have been in a special place proper now, it is getting unfold out world wide.
A few of it may India, however a variety of it may Southeast Asia. Vietnam, for instance, is definitely taking a variety of funding in manufacturing from firms which may’ve been investing in China. In fact, Mexico has additionally been a serious recipient of a variety of this funding as effectively.
India is getting a few of it however, in some ways, what you hear is that India stays a tough place to do enterprise. There’s a variety of obstacles to entry. There are sophisticated tax regimes to take care of and the sort-of wheels of presidency in India, you realize, they simply grind extra slowly, actually than they do in China, the place, for higher or for worse, one occasion rule has managed to streamline the economic system in a really speedy and swift method.
Holder: What is going to it imply for the US if India is ready to ship on these formidable financial progress plans?
Strumpf: So what the US sees in India, I feel, is, um, in the very best case situation as a associate, as a rustic you possibly can work with and as a rustic you possibly can take care of and, you realize, as a fellow democracy, um, as a rustic with some shared values.
Um, so a extra economically vibrant India is a counterweight to China, which is more and more, the US’s largest world rival. So from a strategic perspective, India undoubtedly represents a associate with the US and it may well additionally characterize, you realize, a spot the place a variety of US firms can spend money on and also you’re seeing a variety of that funding already coming in.
Holder: We’ve been speaking rather a lot about India’s potential, however I needed to ask Dan, doesn’t this type of speedy financial growth have downsides, too?
Strumpf: You already know, simply to take the China case, I feel it is, it is very effectively documented that the largest downsides to its financial growth have been the, uh, environmental, uh, unintended effects that got here with it. I imply, you realize, um, and, uh, I imply, the tales of air pollution in locations like Beijing and Shanghai.
Um, I imply, you are really seeing that replicated in lots of Indian cities now in locations like New Delhi, the place, um, you realize, the air pollution is actually the worst on this planet. In order that’s, I imply, that is the obvious draw back to progress. And particularly to speedy progress of that scale.
Holder: So Dan, you have actually helped us perceive the dimensions of India’s ambitions, the place they’re at proper now, the place they go from right here. You’ve got additionally talked to a variety of analysts and economists who’re following what’s taking place in India actually intently. How reasonable do they assume these progress plans are?
Strumpf: So our colleagues at Bloomberg Economics, they crunched the numbers and they’re, um, their conclusion is that India really can overtake China because the world’s engine of financial progress, that means it can, it may be the world’s largest contributor to world progress inside this decade. That is type of in the very best case situation now in a type of a slower progress situation, you’ll see that occuring within the subsequent decade.
So I feel that there’s a sturdy perception that India can develop into, can take this type of mantle because the world’s incremental driver of worldwide progress as China slows down. And you realize what meaning for India is that it’s going to proceed to attract extra international funding.
It should proceed to draw extra funding from international firms and it’ll proceed to sort of develop. As a participant on the world stage.
Holder: Properly, Dan, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us at the moment and sharing your nice reporting.
Strumpf: Properly, thanks a lot.
